How did Saddleback get kicked out of the SBC? It's complicated. LOL. I will do everything I can to help that appeal process. Pastors need to have life outside of ministry. That just breaks my heart. In that case, a little help in this area would be needed and responsible of him and his ministry. I do think in many cases, and this is just my opinion, that God is working in spite of the megachurch to accomplish His will. God doesnt need our forgiveness, and to suggest otherwise is foolishness. Thank you! What about being a Saint, and Living as a Hermit? If there are 47,000 Southern Baptist churches and 20 years from now you only have 20,0000 men who want to be pastors, there are going to be some tough decisions to be made. Paul wanted to stick to the Faith when others beliefs crept in. GriefShare is a powerful, Christ-centered grief recovery program. When your ministry and church have led over 50000 people to Christ, you may have more right to sit in judgement. (Dont count on the SBC to do anything, though, theyve silently been allowing female preaching for years.). So, I can only conclude that the real reason you want me to keep quiet is because you dont like my opinion. But lets quickly look at the most commonly used scripture to explain this position. You are allowed your opinion, as am I. I am not seeking to tear down another Christian. Im supposed to be the one who doesnt have any needs myself. I dont think weve done a great job of understanding our own needs, our own humanity, so weve often tried to live beyond our limits. This is why your churches are dying a slow death and churches like Saddleback are thriving. You prop up a gospel that nobody can live up to so you feel superior. You can find detailed answers to those questions on the My Testimony and What Is The Set-Apart Walk pages. Theres also pressure for a pastor to be a strong organizational leader, be great with numbers, communicate effectively, and counsel people with problems. Even if Saddleback in the end is OK with disfellowship and wants to move on, I hope they will appeal it if for no other reason than to allow their brothers and sisters in Christ, who do not want to see this happen to other churches, to debate this on the floor of the annual convention in an orderly process governed by Roberts Rules of Order. My job as the pastor of discipleship was to lead the campaign for Saddleback. Lets pretend you read this watered down gospel, and you want to be saved. I would appreciate any input. Saddleback Church ousted from Southern Baptist Convention over female Rick Warren certainly seems to be slipping past a bunch of people. However, for the five years my husband and I spent as Southern Baptists, it seemed like Pastor Warren got a pass for anything questionable about his church. As part of its release, we decided to turn it into a campaign in our church and around the country. Less than a month after the Los Angeles-based megachurch turned away from biblical complementarianism, senior pastor Rick Warren announced that he is resigning from his position after over 40 years. What is happening now seems to me to be a great divorce from Baptist history and heritage, said Cole, who tweets his thoughts on the SBC under the handle @baptistblogger. None of your other fellow Christians are nails. If not, why not? Go to saddleback.com and click on the "Sign In/Sign Up" tab in the upper right corner of the home page. If you read some of my other posts you would know that I have a mom who died as a result of her alcoholism. They have also held positions of leadership and responsibilities in spreading the Gospel. He has limited time, limited focus, limited boundaries. Third, you told me that I might have stopped people from finding God. (RNS) Saddleback Church pastor Rick Warren on Sunday (June 6) announced the church will begin the official search for his successor, signaling he will retire after 40 years in his pulpit.. Hi, Debbie. The SBC added a ban on female pastors to its statement of core beliefs, the Faith and Message doctrine, in 2000, but the decision to remove Saddleback, a rare success story in a time of declining church membership, has not been met with uniform enthusiasm among the SBCs roughly 47,000 member churches. Well, Southern Baptists dont approve of female pastors becausethe Bible. You are a true Berean. Otherwise, what is it that we believe? The broken stuff in me has more to do with my burnout and the path Im on than anything else. You may occasionally receive promotional content from the Los Angeles Times. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. (I dont promote my own church because I encourage local church membership.) I think you are utterly and completely wrong about both Rick Warren and Saddleback Church. If youre curious about who I am, you should read my testimony. We are all different and take many approaches on teaching Gods word; thats whats most important. Its also not clear on the gospel. Rick Warren's Saddleback successor triggers 'shock' and 'fear' | Church We need to change how we see God, not ourselves. |, Christian Budgeting: There Really Is A Biblical Way, How To Sabotage Your Marriage: Unrealistic Expectations, News And The Willful Ignorance Of Christians - The Set-Apart Walk, Your Church Might Just Be A Social Club - The Set-Apart Walk, Lutheranism Is Biblical, Right? (Romans 14:1,22). You dont know hopeless until youve been that hopeless. (RNS) Leaders at Rick Warren's Saddleback Church say a preliminary investigation has cleared Andy Wood, Warren's recently announced successor, of allegations made by a former . Sadly, he misuses Scripture, apparently affirms female pastors, and he does not give a clear gospel message (sin and death included), despite having a huge audience. On the other hand, you cant skip fundamentals like the seriousness of sin, Hell, and repentance and still be sharing the whole gospel. 2. Sabbath to me is different than a day off. Warren uses a lot of Bible verses in The Purpose Driven Life, but he consistently engages in eisegesis. This is not the first time Kay Warren has taken the pulpit, however. expressed some concerns, but most recognizable names were positive. Before launching Replenish, Lance served twenty years as a senior pastor and six years as an executive/teaching pastor at Saddleback Church. People choose to reject Him, and our God serves perfect justice which is separation from Him in Hell. If hes the one whos always doing the work of the ministry, he will become the bottleneck of the church. A full body orgasm at the L.A. Phil? Rather than Jesus lessons about the kingdom during the Sermon on the Mount, CR is offering Your Best Life Now kinda stuff. Whether or not individuals who are both employed by SBC agencies or serve as trustees of those entities and agencies seized upon the opportunity of Rick Warrens retirement to seek and pursue the removal of Saddleback from fellowship, I dont know. As a side note: saying bad, bad hermeneutics is not sarcastic or disturbing. And what about unbelievers? You made a good point. That pastors books can be bestsellers. I was on a fast track to a similar fate, but salvation through Jesus led to my sobriety. He is now dedicated to helping leaders live and lead from a healthy soul. Last week the Southern Baptist Convention ousted Saddleback Church, one of its largest and highest-profile member churches, from its ranks. There used to be moderate Baptists, conservative Baptists, fundamental Baptists and even liberal Baptists, but everyone allowed each other to worship how they wanted and still cooperated for missions, ministry, evangelism and theological education. You say that you were saved in CR, but youre not demonstrating a very Christlike attitude towards me. But Sabbath is about stopping, and resting, and delighting, and putting things in your life that fill you up. Thank you so much Julie for your piece on Rick Warren. The whole world talks this way to each other & about each other. what about Jews for Jesus pastors .Unitarian Transgender Churches. Bill Hybels, senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church, said that in ministry youve got to be able to discern the difference between good hard and destructive hard. Good hard is healthy sacrifice. I find that it doesnt matter whether youre in a big church or a small church, a rural church or an urban church, you can burn out no matter what your situation. Dwight McKissic, senior pastor of Cornerstone Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas, shared his displeasure on Twitter, writing that the decision to disfellowship Saddleback was not about Scripture or adherence to the Baptist Faith and Message. For now, lets move on. Debbie. Ultimately, thats what we need to doview teachings through the sieve of Gods Word. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information, Saddleback Church ordained women. I didnt have much time for family, and I remember sometimes my wife and I would discuss how I was never there. Saddleback Church backs Rick Warren successor despite allegations Im not hammering anyone. He is a public figure who many people look to for spiritual guidance. God bless. So, even if I didnt think female ordination was a problem, Saddleback is still in the wrong. Im pondering your post, not pounding it. Lets talk about what that might look like. Theres no greater good than salvation through Jesus Christ, but his focus is deeds not creeds. (https://www.christianpost.com/news/rick-warren-to-muslims-talk-is-cheap-let-s-work-together.html) So, I dont care how many times he gives an enjoyable sermon if he continues to deprioritize the gospel. So the Southern Baptist Convention gave it the boot, Q&A: Talking about the Southern Baptist sex abuse scandal with Pastor P.J. Weve thought, Im supposed to be available 24/7. First, you say its OK that I have my personal opinions, but you then correct me for sharing them. I agree with you Pepper. A lot of questionable churches can stay because they give money to the SBC and/or they are so popular that standing against them is political suicide. I wouldnt be surprised if Rick or John said that, though, in a live talk somewhere. All that means is Rick Warren does a poor job of interpreting the Word. How to Cure Workaholism by Dr. David Murray I have great news for you! Ive seen people completely renewed after salvation. The church faces short-lived criticism but no practical consequences. The Saddleback Church pastor developed the popular Christ-centered 12-step program for "hurts, habits, and hang-ups." Jump directly to the Content Who We Are God created Adam first and then Eve. A true Church of the living God with Christ as the head will thrive in any situation. Rather, I am asking people to reconsider Rick Warren and Saddleback. Im definitely not straining gnats by pointing out that a world famous pastor gives a weak gospel or maybe even none at all. Not only is there a thorough history on the site, but you can receive more of Warrens Saddleback Church history from the 101 class offered to new members. Regardless, most addicts in recovery realize they need god to stay in recovery and a new journey with the lord begins. Whats the big deal, you ask? His critics would have been delighted if he had failed. 4. I really do appreciate hearing from people. Scriptural qualifications also say pastors must be apt to teach, they must be the husband of one wife, they must be not given to wine its all in the Bible in 1st Timothy Chapter 3. You dont agree and you think Im a terrible person, but that doesnt refute my points. Its an addictions ministry Julie, do you want people to overcome addiction or not? It is sad to see other believers tear another down. Pastor Rick Warren speaks during an outdoor Easter service at Saddleback Church, which just returned to in-person worship, on Thursday evening, April 1, 2021. But I find it likely that Rick Warrens retirement makes it easier for people who have long wanted Saddleback out to pursue it. Enter your email address, select the "I want to create an account" option, and click "Continue" to open the Create Login dialog box. After leaving Saddleback, Lance started a ministry called Replenish to help pastors care for themselves as they do the work of ministry. To end as I began, I wouldnt attend saddleback (or any SBC) but the body of Christ is built up by all its members bringing their diversity of gifts. Snide comments, sarcasm & prideful nit picking spread nothing but negativity. What drives you to write and answer those above? No one can live up to the gospel. Do you have faith? Although a valid right of yours to disagree with me, it doesnt mean Im not allowed to speak. Second, help people clearly understand what youre asking them to do. Saddleback ordained three women on May 6, 2021. The notion that women should be silent in church, found in 1 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Corinthians 14:3, refers specifically to instances of the church and marriage. It seems like we will have to agree to disagree. Those churches were disfellowshipped [removed] from their local associations, and it never came to a vote in the national convention in the way that this is happening. I thought I would be all alone in my opinion of Warrens book, and I was partially correct. At the same time, the addiction is the secondary issue. For one, you called me a man. If you, however, find theres a lack of content you want to read, then I suggest you start a blog and share what you want to see on the internet. 3 Ways to Maintain Sanity in Ministry by Dr. Jeff Forrey. I have read all of his devotionals (365 of them as I translated them into another language) and they were sincere and enriching for me personally. God made you a hammer, He made me a screw driver, He made Rick Warren a Saw. Ordaining female pastors contradicts biblical teachings. My name is Julie. Saddleback Female Pastors Debate Raises Questions The gospel is that were all sinners and are going to Hell, Jesus came to Earth as man and God to live a sinless life and He took the punishment for our sins on the cross. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. June 8, 2021 5 AM PT Rick Warren, the founder of a sprawling megachurch, a bestselling author and one of the most influential figures in American evangelicalism, is retiring as lead pastor of. Thank you so much for doing what you do. Witnesses offer conflicting accounts, Mars Voltas lead singer broke with Scientology and reunited with the band. Rapid-fire unrelated questions dont typically lead to a fruitful conversation. You have no cause to be angry at me. 3. There are many verses that teach caution, 1 John 4:1; 2 John 1: 7-11; Romans 16:17; and 1 Timothy 6: 3-5 to name a few. Pastors can ask questions like, Whats the state of my soul? Am I drained? Am I actually leading others while running on empty myself? Am I more irritable? Often those are signs of unhealthy motivation. As a recovered alcoholic (decades ago) I can assure you that the addict HAS to put there recovery as the sole purpose of the program. Im Julie. Why say that? Easy to judge mistakes of others. Pastors need to ask themselves, What are the barriers that keep people from jumping in to serve? At Saddleback we discovered the word leader itself was a barrier to some people who didnt consider themselves leaders. If you could just manage your environment better, you wouldnt burn out. My point is that you couldve pivoted your message to offering the opportunity to invite people to the church you attend and discuss why you think its great instead of stating all the wrong things about Saddleback. He also refuses to refute homosexuality. That is how our polity is intended to work. Apparently, Warren plucked it out of Job without thought of the true meaning of the text. And praise the Lord! But now a pastors people listen online to the best communicators anywhere in the country, so theres pressure for a pastor to deliver. You, and many others, assume the worst and think I am speaking from my personal viewpoint. Ministry is the box, the delivery system, but Jesus is the gift. Another missing gospel, a focus on something other than Jesus, and mishandling Scripture make for another gospel failing. Discover how CareLeader.org can help you provide biblical and compassionate pastoral care for struggling and hurting people in your church. But that doesnt give the ministry a free pass on its areas of weakness or disobedience to the Word (e.g., ordaining women). But churches like Saddleback lure people in with friendliness and self-help styled sermons. Julie, Last year, some claimed Warren's Saddleback Church no longer belongs in the convention and proposed ousting the biggest church in the SBC for ordaining female pastors. We may not only be losing Saddleback Church and Rick Warren. By the same logic, you should probably refrain from commenting on someones blog post It doesnt make sense, you know? Julie Not so much. So does verse 13 that gives the reason. God bless you! Meanwhile, I suggest watching the series on women that Mike Winger is doing on YouTube. Women, however, cannot teach men in a role of authority in the church as seen on 1 Timothy 2:11-12. I understand its Saddlebacks website, and I would expect it to encourage people to join them. June 28, 2021 3 AM PT Rick Warren's announcement on June 6 that he plans to step away from his role as lead pastor at Saddleback Church in Lake Forest raises the issue of succession in. Unfortunately, the SBC runs like a microcosm of a government. Many blessings. I was definitely on a path to burnout. is loved by everyone, then I need to look closely for the problem. Ministry today might be as complex as its ever been in the history of the world. Ignorant comments are nothing compared to that. Large pictures of him living his best life now while describing him in such a way that it feels a little cultish. I thank you for staying strong and focused on biblical teachings and Im actually learning a lot here. CR gives the impression that Jesus is a step toward the goal of recovery rather than being of the utmost importance. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. In Matthew 22:39 Jesus tells those listening to love their neighbors as they love themselves. This blog post is not to teach what I think is right, Brittany. Titus 1:9 says, He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it. Similarly, Titus 2:1 says, But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine. Saddleback remains Southern Baptist for now, after surprise appeal by Are we going to start kicking out churches who have pastors that are unfaithful to their wives? Second, you did not address any of my criticisms with counterarguments. CR offers an opportunity to say the prayer of salvation (which is not a real thing, by the way), and shares testimonies about salvation that are more about recovery than Jesus. However, they had a much easier time than previously in dealing with their addiction. An anxious wife. Perhaps it will be something else later on.. I ran across your site while continuing my own research of CR. Third, youve accused me of being prideful, self-righteous, and claim I think I am the only one who knows the Truth. Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. They are to be held accountable, and Jesus example was public admonishment. Pastor Rick Warren, who founded . 3 Reasons Saddleback Church Fails The Gospel And You Also, congratulations on your sobriety. You then went on to tell me what kind of posts I should be posting instead and how to correct my post to make it more palpable to you. Thats my experience, at least. God is awesome. So many people out here in South Bay has been praying for years for a Saddleback campus, and through God's will, daring faith vision, and persistency, the prayers have now been answered. Just pray for all the liberals daking a belief in the Bible n Jesus Christ. Im not. And I am so happy that you found a church that digs into the meat of the Word. I myself did actually enjoy The Purpose Driven life as a new Christian and have enjoyed many of Rick Warrens sermons (on line) but having read through your points, Im re-thinking a lot and will be re-searching his teachings a bit more in depth. Thank you so much for commenting! Then I have them circle the one thats absolutely the most important for keeping their tank filled. I believe that without the salvation he granted me at 26 years old, Id be a another victim of alcoholism. Good hard is, Ministry is messy, but Im there and I want to be available as a pastor.. A couple of examples include Luke 11:37-54 (the woes) and Luke 13:14-17 (calling out hypocrites). So, once again, we see a poorly given gospel message with more focus on Saddlebacks product than anything else. I remind pastors all the time that ministry is not their life. Know what I mean? (* I have read through the leader information when previously considering starting CR in a previous church.). And as a side note: A large audience (which is what Saddleback has) is not necessarily indicative of a successful church. Created by the team that produces CareLeader.org, GriefShare features many of the experts who contribute to the CareLeader website. You bring up some very important thoughts. (All the information I share in this section is from the Saddleback Church website, unless otherwise noted.). If you dont, in the end youre not going to do much good for your church or ministry if you burn out. Hey Charles. She must know that God sent His Son, Jesus, to fulfill the law living a sinless life and that Jesus willingly took the punishment for our sin on the cross as the final sacrifice needed. Saddleback Church Says Goodbye to Its Worship Leader of 24 Years God IS awesome! Give people a simple step. Most Christians couldnt even accept that fact because their church isnt talking about Revelation nor are they looking at the world with a Biblical world view. And we need to test everything: hold fast what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). The Beatitudes are generally accepted as descriptions of the character of Gods kingdom. They start acting as though they dont have limits. Its difficult to find critical reviews of it. It was a very exciting time and an insanely crazy time. Simply put, Im a Bible-believing Christian woman. CR also encourages participants to improve their self-esteem and self-image. Also, my post is not snide or prideful. And for some, like my mother, it proves to be stronger than they are. And he does this by making the gospel and his church easier for the world to tolerate, but its so watered down it is barely recognizable. A grieving teen. Or you can do this, and then your church will explode in size because your pastor is a self-help guru, not a faithful preacher of the Word of God. https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/. What Christ is Warren suggesting people accept? Finally, you clearly think that I am picking apart someone while not seeing my own mistakes. I, myself, had a dangerous drinking habit into my mid-twenties. Pastors also have not always been good about leading themselves. If anything, the scripture additions they use in their program only make it harder for the addict.