It has to be just as sharp and just as prepared. Winchester 9mm 147gr Black Talon in Clear Ballistics gel. - AR-15 Black Talon handgun ammo production was halted in 1993. But now the hysteria is .223 fragmenting into a bunch of tiny pieces. He fired a .357 Magnum revolver at agents Ronald Risner and Gilbert Orrantia, and was shot a fourth time when turning to fire at Hanlon, Dove and Grogan. The after-action report of the shootout also set a new precedence for the protocol on ammunition evaluation and testing. For ammunition to pass the FBI Test Protocol, it must meet a minimum of 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin, but no more than 18 inches. Edmundo Mireles: Remington M870 12-gauge shotgun, five rounds 00 buckshot fired, .357 Magnum revolver, Smith & Wesson Model 686 (despite not being FBI-issue), six rounds .38 Special +P fired. It's a proper oddity, the Black Talon. Black Talon bullets are not inherently illegal in the United States. Therefore, they are certainly NOT the same exact thing. He reportedly loaded his handgun with Black Talon rounds. The larger the wound channel the more likely the threat will drop quicker. it's about the bullet expansion :)Black Talon is a brand of hollow-point pistol and rifle. 4/12/2023. boxes. The Ranger SXT ammunition sold later by Winchester is very similar to the Black Talon though without the black Lubalox coating on the bullet. The third hit Matix in the face, and fragmented in two, with neither piece causing a serious wound. Black Talon Ammo - Hand-Tools.com Probably. Black Talon ammunition was created by Winchester in 1991. Our Honest Review, How To Buy Guns Online: Armslist Firearms Marketplace, Best EDC Medical Kit Buyers Guide [2023], Best 9mm Competition Pistol: Faxon FX19 Hellfire. It just makes one realize when your shift began you never knew what may happen. Every time I see reference to that shootout it takes me back to that day. They are just arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with flesh. Introduced at the 1991 SHOT Show, Winchesters Black Talon was the ammo companys answer for a more effective self-defense bullet demanded by the FBI following the 1986 Miami Firefight. The fourth hit Matix in the face next to his right eye socket, travelled downward through the facial bones, into the neck, where it entered the spinal column and severed the spinal cord. After only approx. Today, Black Talon bullets are no longer manufactured or sold by Winchester, but similar types of hollow-point bullets are still widely available and legal for civilian use in the United States. As boatloads of testing has displayed, the V-Crown is incredibly accurate and . Glock 19 HST 124 +P / Critical Duty 135 gr +P An example is a 9mm 50 grain JHP that has a velocity of 2000 Ft per second! Hollow points are designed to rapidly expand after hitting a target, causing as much damage as possible and reducing the chance of overpenetration. How rare is this 9mm Black Talon? I was given this box by my - Reddit Shooting a .357 black talon at some ballistics gel. Destiny 2 Black Talon Exotic Sword - How to Obtain Several years ago, SIG Sauer started expanding its market share into electro-optics and ammunition. Of the ten, only one, Special Agent Manauzzi, did not fire any shots (his firearm was thrown from car in the initial collision), while only one, Special Agent Risner, was able to emerge from the battle without a wound. In fact, for the first two years, Black Talon was on the market it received an award from Shooting Industry magazine for its effective lethality. I have a box of sxt, but chose the bonded version for performance through auto glass. But try a self-defense plea with cop killer bullets. Seriously injured by a .223 gunshot wound to the left forearm. Matix was then shot in the right forearm, probably by Grogan. Hollow Point Ammo. San Francisco put together a new law banning Black Talon ammunition. For 9mm or .45 ACP, try Hornady Critical Duty. I bought them before they were not so infamous. [8] Platt then pulled back from the window, giving Matix opportunity to fire. Reply Save Like Heres why. Of course, with a normal round, a Teflon-coated bullet has no advantages overa conventional bullet when striking a protective vest. They make them in many different calibers and seeing what they do in a block of gel is amazing. 0. Mireles was hit in the left forearm, creating a severe wound. 20 SUPREME CENTERFIRE PISTOL-REVOLVER CARTRIDGES in each box.All boxes are in excellent shape nearly factory fresh . Black Talon | Wookieepedia | Fandom This wound caused Platt to drop his revolver. In all actuality, it was a special black coating with the purpose of preserving barrel life. The Black Talon is a hollowpoint bullet designed to bend upon impact into six ninety-degree angle razor-sharp petals or "talons" that increase the wounding power of the bullet by stretching, cutting and tearing tissue and bone as it travels through the victim. You can use it in melee, like a normal sword, but you can also shoot void projectiles. Washington Takes Oppression of Gun Owners to New Lows, Finding a Firearm: My Wifes First Pistol, Throwback Thursday: 5 Long-Slide Pistols I Cant Live Without. The round is a traditional hollow point bullet, but with a then-innovative reverse taper (the bullet jacket is thicker at the tip than at the base) and a Lubaloxnot Tefloncoating. which includes rounds from both semi-autos & wheel guns. Everytime a Good Guy with a Gun does the right thing, the media never mentions it. Can you guess what it is? The round is a traditional hollow point design, but with a reverse taper. Jerry Dove: Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm pistol, 20+ rounds fired. At the time, Winchesters Black Talon was one of, if not the most effective self-defense round you could buy. Im still missing one round. Effective self-defense requires ammunition that provides consistent expansion, optimum penetration, and superior terminal performance. For personal carry. A strange thing happened when I shot multiple Hornady Critical Duty rounds through ordinary pine lumber 24s, backed by sand/clay. We have to portray an image of conscientious awareness to go along with our situational awareness. Winchester Ammunition 230 Grain Jacketed Hollow-Point (JHP) Ammo Details Winchester Ranger .45 ACP is one of the most in demand .45 rounds on the market- and for good reason. Most of the design for the Black Talon was rolled over into the Ranger SXT ammunition, which operates on much the same principle. FACTORY ORIGINAL WINCHESTER * BLACK TALON * AMMUNITION 45ACP 230gr. In March 2014, The Guardian newspaper reported that South African paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius had shot to death his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine's Day the previous year with four Black Talons fired from a 9mm pistol. I carry a descendant of the Black Talon, Q4364. The Federal HST rounds have the backing of the FBI. The first shooting which brought critical media attention to Black Talon was by Gian Luigi Ferri, who used Black Talon and other ammunition to shoot 15 people at a San Francisco law office in 1993; nine of whom died (the 101 California Street shootings). Both of their bodies were drug-free at the time of their deaths.[26]. The Black Talon exotic sword is still a beast in Destiny 2. Despite this, the ammo maker did have avidsupporters until it recently closed its doors. My absolute favorite based on my tests, their tests, and the awesome pic that shows the bullet cut in half, revealingt he load of balls. Just my $.02 after thirty years as a trainer.. Just another reason why 9mm is a doubtful choice for self defense, even though CTD touts this caliber to the max. But affecting vital structure is what causes an interruption in aggression. [1] made waves when it was released. Firearms Trivia - Winchester Black Talon Ammunition. If you were wearing a protective vest the best bullet you want to hit by is an expanding bullet so the material in the vest absorbs the energy. He was incredibly informative. They make and sell 9mm ammunition and plenty of other calibers. The ultimate demise of this round was the LE community nicknaming it Black Felon ammo. . TheFirearmBlog // But it seems that they maybe more Gun Owner In Name Only. I still see students in my Concealed Carry Classes who buy the gun, get the permit, then put the thing up on a shelf in the closet never to be seen again. They actually became friends in the Army. Unlike the Black Talon, for whichnegative media attention caused the discontinuation of the line, G2s R.I.P. Problem here is that in the LE business the females cannot qualify with the 10MM I would think. Find your best price for handgun Ammo black talon | Best handgun Ammunition black talon - AmmoSeek.com Search Engine 2023 Join SOFREP for insider access and analysis. Your email address will not be published. The second hit the drivers side window post and fragmented, with one small piece hitting Platt in the scalp. I had no idea I was sitting on a collectable round that now sells for close to $100 a box. Im a proponent of all munitions that are topped wth Barns bullets. Black Talon is incredibly ammo efficient. [1] Black Talon ammunition was produced in the following calibers: 9mm Luger, 10mm Auto, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .300 Winchester Magnum, .308 Winchester, .338 Winchester Magnum, and .30-06 Springfield. In 2009, Winchester-Olin released a new hollow point bullet in its Supreme Elite line of handgun ammunition called the Bonded PDX1. The Black Talon is an interesting and entertaining exotic sword in Destiny 2. However, not many would recommend spending the money unless you are a collector or a sucker for nostalgia. Below is our list of the top most controversial brands or types of handgun rounds. The bullet was designed in 1991 under the supervision of Alan Corzine, who at that time was VP of research and development for Winchester. With that, I wanted to take the time to compliment you on one of the best written articles to have ever covered this topic. Both of these are non-bonded, so they both have some jacket separation at the nose. The hollow point cavity dimensions and angles of the meplat were altered to enhance reliability of expansion, though the basic "reverse taper" design pioneered by the Black Talon was retained. Armor-piercing handgun ammunition has been banned in the United States since 1986, and unless you had some beforehand, you likely wont be shooting any AP 9x19mm rounds anytime soon. Its Winchester ra9b, the b is for bonded, made for the feds. There is a lot to be said for that kind of recommendation. Were either Platt or Matix ex-military? My hat is off to you. Misconceptions abound regarding these bullets, and you might even hear phrases likeits overpowered, its specifically designed to kill people, or strangely enough, its armor-piercing.. A 4 Sig and a 4.5 S&W both worked well. [8] Just prior to ramming the Monte Carlo, Manauzzi had pulled out his service revolver and placed it on the seat in anticipation of a shootout,[8] but the force of the collision flung open his door and sent his weapon flying. This Lubalox coating was to protect the barrel rifling, and did not give the bullet armor-piercing capabilities. No, Black Talon rounds are not armor piercing. The little blue ball keeps the hollow point from clogging, and when it opens its like an itty bitty shotgun shell, full of balls. 20rds - 45 ACP Winchester Black Talon 230gr. HP Ammo - AmmunitionToGo.com Black Talon bullets are a brand of hollow-point bullets that were designed and marketed by Winchester in the 1990s. For a round very similar to the old Black Talon, check out the Winchester Ranger series or the PDX1though both are difficult to find. Gun #: 963524304 Seller: GunFactory ( FFL) $219.99 Full Details 1 Image (s) Radian Talon Safety Selector - 4-lever Black For Ar15 Gun #: 969752348 Seller: GunFactory ( FFL) $93.49 Full Details Platt then apparently positioned the Mini-14 against his shoulder using his uninjured left hand. I know that Underwood Ammo sells some pretty nasty rounds called Controlled Fracture rounds. Thats why Federal HST is the duty load of choice for law enforcement officers throughout the world. cannot easily destroy. [24], The shootout involved ten people: two suspects and eight FBI agents. AgDaily, OutdoorHub All Rights Reserved Carbon Media Group Outdoors. THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING VETERAN JOURNALISM - JOIN SOFREP+ Even now, people still claim Black Talon was the best defensive round and search for its modern day equivalent. The 10mms travel at 1600fps with 767fp of muzzle energy, the .357 Sigs travel at 1550fps at 614fps muzzel energy. Sign In . Grogan, however, is credited with landing the first hit of the gunfight, wounding Matix in the forearm as he leaned out of the Monte Carlo to fire the shotgun at Grogan and Dove. A 5 1911 gave the most impressive-looking bullet expansion Ive ever seen. Ranger "Talon" ammo for a while, was also marked SXT on the box, but the bullets themselves were not the same bullet . Two of the agents had backup revolvers (Hanlon and Risner) and both would use them at some point during the fight. Any idea on value??? John Hall, FBI Firearms Training Unit Director at the time called the tragedy an ammo failure. The aftermath encouraged the FBI to seek new guns, more effective ammunition and set precedence for the FBIs protocol on ammunition evaluation and testing. Winchester Black Talons The handgun ammo that was just "too good" to Thats right, these bullets are infused with pork for an extra deterrent factor of eternal damnation for fundamentalist Islamic Jihadist.. After that shooting I never took anything for granted again. .357 Black Talon - YouTube By admin | January 9, 2023 | 32. Nowadays, people still claim Black Talon was the best defensive handgun round. Sign In Why Join As a Dealer Dealer Login. The Ranger SXT is the same bullet without the Lubalox coating. Mireles fired four more rounds at Platt and Matix, but hit neither. Black Talon and Today's Best Self-Defense Ammo That D.A. BLACK TALON * AMMUNITION 45ACP 230gr. SXT - Guns International They lack the velocity to do massive tissue damage and make the blood pressure drop fast. Quite a few years ago, an IDPA shooter handed me a shiny silver cartridge with a black bullet and said, Dont lose this. The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt! With great BC, excellent expansion values, and very high weight retention, these solid copper pills serve across the spectrum of rifle and pistol platforms and their associated libary of targets requirments. Platt then entered the Grogan/Dove car in an apparent attempt to flee the scene. Black Talon is a type of ammunition that was introduced by Winchester Ammunition in 1991 primarily for law enforcement and self-defense. 29K views 1 year ago I grabbed some of the infamous Winchester Black Talon 9mm. "[N]o injuries have been reported to medical professionals removing the bullets" in "Police use new brand of bullets Surgeon says removal may endanger doctors" by Dan R. Barber. Another popular characteristic of Black Talon ammo is a coating known as Lubalox that is applied . { I personally own 10 boxes of Winchester Black Talon in .45 ACP and 9mm.6 boxes of .38 Special and .357 Magnum.and 10 boxes of .44 Magnum. What type of background did they have that allowed them to use their weapons with such evil proficiency? 357 black talon ammo for sale and auction. The 147 "SXT" bullet in the Premium/Supreme 9mm load was NOT the same as the old Black Talon, and did NOT have the "talons" that the Black Talon and Ranger T bullets have. Resembling the larger, more heavily armed Terminus-class destroyer, the Gage-class transport traded the destroyer's numerous turbolaser banks for cargo space and troop barracks. Thus If you have among the last boxes manufactured. Once that was made public the round died an instant death. Officer Heckman does not remember Platt leaving the Grogan/Dove car. Your ammo is approx. Everyone there was shooting 9mm or 38 SPL/357 magnums. While its black color and petal-like construction gave it a very distinctive look,. Religious experts also commented that many of the claims that Jihawg made were false and that it is not a transgression if a Muslim isforced to eat or touch pork. A word of caution is that while this individual had dropped his weapon a fled a short distance I ordered the poor agonizing suspect hand cuffed. In todays offerings, I feel that the most important thing is guaranteed quick expansion, because the FPS on pistols is nowhere near a rifle. Not only does Jihawg guarantee that all of their ammunition meets or exceeds S.A.A.M.I. The 230gr JHP manufactured by HOP Munitions results in a slightly slower FPS of 876 FPS but offers a greater downrange energy of 392 ft/lbs. Your discussions, feedback and comments are welcome here as long as they are relevant and insightful. Testing out the Winchester Ranger SXT .357 Magnum 180 gr SXT (Black Talon bullet circa 1993) in a 10% Clear Ballistics test in my 4" S&W 686 and 2" Taurus 60. Barrett is the world leader in long-range, large-caliber, precision rifle design and manufacturing. Platt then fired his rifle at Mireles who was running across the street to join the fight. Of the eight agents at the scene, two had Ithaca Model 37 shotguns in their vehicles (McNeill and Mireles), three were armed with semi-automatic Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm pistols (Dove, Grogan, and Risner), and the rest were armed with Smith & Wesson revolvers. Black Talon is a brand of hollow point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use. William Matix: Smith & Wesson Model 3000 12-gauge shotgun, one round #6 shot fired. I even had one work OK from a 2.5 bbl. In the shootout, the eight FBI agents were mainly armed with Smith & Wesson Military and Police .357 Magnum revolvers shooting .38 Special +P ammunition. . Praesidus brings homage to the military watch tradition. If you want either round, SGAmmo has plenty at decent prices. However, after medical examiners performed autopsies on the bodies, it was discovered that one bullet stopped just less than an inch from the heart. No one weapon will ever be enough in my mind. One must rapidly cause a loss of blood pressure or break bones. Barrett products are used by civilians, sport shooters, law enforcement agencies, the United States military, and more than 75 State Department-approved countries around the world. Killed by two .223 gunshot wounds to the head. Describing the round, South African police ballistics expert Captain Christian Mangena explained: It hits the target, it opens up, it creates six talons, and these talons are sharp. McNeill fired over the hood of Manauzzis car but was wounded by return fire from Platts Ruger Mini-14 rifle. standards for velocity, penetration, and accuracy, they also coat each projectile with a special ballistic paint infused with pork to make it Haraamor unclean to a radical Jihadist, the company stated in a press release in 2013. Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition for sale. - Collectors Firearms Winchester got burned by its own marketing hype on Black Talon, when criminal misuse of the product fueled media hysterics over bullets that deploy flesh-ripping claws. This is as close to a perfect Comprehensive Readers Digest version, in the 45 words or less format of the complete facts and points of interes as one could ask for! Rapidly expanding projectiles help to ensure that all of the energy able to be summoned up by a pistol caliber will remain in its primary target. Winchester Black Talon Bullets: Modern-Day Equivalents Billing its rounds as peace through pork, Jihawg gained media scrutiny for a very noveland some would say absurdaddition to what seem to be perfectly standard 9mm rounds. Even though it can be found on sites like GunBroker for a premium, people are still in search of a modern-day equivalent. It is my new go-to round for home defense. I am also well versed in the Black Talon and its complete run in history to the point that I own some for posterity sake. A jury of your peers, and not a knowledgeable jury with respect to ammunition, will hear those words He loaded those Cop Killer Bullets into his gun and just waited for the chance to use them. Your claim of Self-Defense now becomes premeditated murder! For the prestige of having and carrying the bullets that rip apart the insides after passing through a bulletproof vest instead you have become the evil gun owner. If you have a mushroomed slug driven into your chest, you wont feel any better if that slug is all blunt around the edges; the wound channel will still be a shredded mess with blunt jacket petals protruding from the edges of the slug. He spoke in detail of the Shoot Out to our students. Black Talon - Wikipedia You are 100% correct, that expansion is nice in preventing over penetration, but it is correct penetration that wins the fight. Winchester repackaged and renamed the round throughout the years. AllOutdoor // They sell for $50-$75 around. The core is made of high-antimony lead making it extremely tough, delivering controlled expansion for unparalleled terminal performance. Regardless however after that day & event, we in south as Leos began changing from 38 revolvers to semi autos First to 9MM then eventually to 40 call semi with JHP rounds. Test results are generally given in terms of expanded diameter, penetration depth, and weight retention. What is the value of Black Talon ammo? | Glock Talk The leading Government Policing Agency after a lot of testing and searching has decided that this is the bullet that they will carry with them to protect you from the evil that prowls the night., We have to consider that in just about every courtroom, especially the courtroom of public opinion, we are not the good guys. Just look at what happened to that promised red tide that was going to overwhelm the Senate, the House, and every Governors Office from Maine to Arizona. Stay Tuned to the RE Factor Tactical Blog and be part of this all VETERAN-run website. Review: Hi-Point JXP 10mm An Overgrown Yeet Canon Thats a Lot of Fun! Glock 21 Hornady XTP 230 gr +P / Ranger 230 +P. 's blog. [14] It is estimated that Platt was shot a fifth time shortly afterwards, this time by Risner. Not exactly sure what to do with one round none of my guns could eat at the time, the Black Talon was soon forgotten and lost in the black hole I call a car. I own a lot of the DPX and EDC it, but those magazines dont go aanywhere near my nightstand. Israels Cutting-Edge Missile Warning System to Be Deployed in Ukraine This May, US Special Forces Evacuate Embassy Staff in Sudan: Other Americans Left Behind, Again, Navy SEALs David Goggins versus Dan Crenshaw in SEAL on SEAL Internet Death Match, SOFREP Stands With Our Brothers Who Demand Responsibility for Disastrous Afghan Departure, Adam Brown: A SEALs Life of Courage and Redemption, Complete List: Ticonderoga-class Missile Cruisers To Retire By 2027, Nuclear Close Calls That Nearly Caused World War III, Russian Sausage Millionaire and Putin Critic Falls to His Death in India. THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING VETERAN JOURNALISM - JOIN SOFREP+ , PO Box 1077 MURFREESBORO, Tennessee 37133 United States, P.O. The Black Talon bullet is referenced in The Mountain Goats album Bleed Out, in the track "First Blood".[21]. Glock 32 Gold dot 125 gr Are Black Talon Bullets armor-piercing? To the comment that the Black Talon did not fail you would be incorrect. Luckily, 10mm handguns were new and not many shooters had them. And 9mm blowing lungs out. This is simply a brilliant piece of work. We reserve the right to edit as appropriate, delete profane, harassing, abusive and spam comments or posts, and block repeat offenders. Black Talon .357 Mag Cartridges - Long Range Hunting Forum The most recently released roundon this list, G2s Radically Invasive Projectile (R.I.P.) Other than the collectibility of the Black Talon, the author is definitely right about other ammunition being just as good and some even being close to identical just by a different name (I like the SXT round reference.same exact thing..lol).